I grew up on a farm with sheep and cattle. To herd cattle very far, you need a horse or else they run around you. To herd sheep, you need dogs that are trained to form a funnel into the destination (usually a sheep pen) and to bark. By staking out the boundaries and barking, the sheep go where you want them.
Thanks for your comment. As I indicated in my piece, Christian Nationalism only exists as a construct of the Left*. They made up the term, poured meaning into it, and with that meaning, criticized it. As far as the racial contructs of Tisby and others, again the dialog these people use descends from assumptions based in CRT's systemic view, often without the proponents realizing they are engaging in a frame that is a construct of CRT. The CRT frame inescapably cues up the arguments of all you mention. The only problem: Like Ptomely's cosmology, the CRT cosmology (and it's CT father) doesn't exist.
Nations have been around a long time. Race as we understand it is fewer than two centuries old-- really 19th century justification for the racial view of humanity to replace the Christian view of humanity. This view resulted in the racist activity at the end of the 19th and early 20th century. The Christian concepts of people groups (Nations, tribes, tongues) is the frame that we should be using. Physical attributes are irrelevant in this view. Cultures are central. This is why Paideia (culture transfer) is so important.
* Note: The longer the term is used, the more likely a group becomes defined by the term. So it may be that Christian nationalism becomes a real thing as people seek to be identified by the term-- "yea, I'm one of those!". This is how words have power to create. Before the term, you just had Christians who believed America had Christian roots and was a good nation. Or, you had progressive ideas of manifest destiny and the messianic role of "Americanism" in the world. Or, some combination of the two. Plus, a few other positions. Reality didn't fit the category.
Thanks for your reply. You mentioned that Christian Nationalism is a construct of the “left”. I only wonder how that relates to the actual data and views of the authors I mentioned. Robert P. Jones, for example, gives some very disheartening statistics outlining how racist attitudes measured on an index are proportionate to church attendance in white evangelical contexts. Along with that, the history of the American church has an undeniable role in shaping the racist attitudes that still linger today. This is, as you mentioned, not at all congruous with a biblical view of human flourishing. As far as CRT (critical race theory?) or CT (critical theory?), I find it intellectually dishonest to consider anything that appeals to power structures as such. I can’t, for example, say that the facts regarding current American white evangelical Christian attitudes and their subtle racist tendencies are a construct of CRT based on assumptions, they are just the facts. We cannot just throw anything we don’t like about race into the category of CRT. I wonder, if you do not think that Christian Nationalism is even worth defining, how do you explain why there were protesters who invaded the capital on January 6 wielding Christian flags, why so many white Christian evangelicals voted for Donald Trump, how ripples of the American Christian Nationalism model currently afflict other nations around the world like Brazil who has a overtly racist, sexist, and fear-mongering leader who constantly attends “Christian” rallies? Thank you for discussion. It is a very important and timely one to have. I am a Christian and care about my witness as an American one. I wince knowing that so many non-Christian Americans associate my faith with hate, racism, and nationalism. In the real Gospel, not the fake gospel (the real Good News as opposed to fake-news, if you will), our ‘love for nation’ is trivial compared to the unity of the diverse global Church.
Tanner, I'd be interested in knowing quite clearly whether you find the same problems with cultural Marxism (as it has come to be known), CRT, and "Anti-Racism" as you do with someone promoting a proto-American view of a nation using the Bible as its guide and seeking to be a "nation under God."
The problem with Christian Nationalism is political idolatry. I have not personally met or noticed many Christian Marxists who idolize marxism as a political idol. So, no, I would not find the "same problem", problematic though it is. Christian Nationalism is wrong primarily because it is not biblical. Additionally it has been historically (in the American context) muddied with racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other things that are incongruous with Christian virtue and Church witness.
I am curious about what exactly you mean by cultural Marxism. Additionally, to equate or relate it to CRT is interesting. I do find many troublesome arguments within much of both CRT and "anti-racism", whereas I guess I would consider both Marxism and Christian Nationalism fundamentally flawed.
Although there are certainly worrisome proponents of CRT, because it is such a broad term, it is intellectually dishonest to write off the entire group of ideas just because it is related to a critical perspective. I would encourage you to engage with the idea and then form your opinions about it.
One resource I recommend that approaches the topic honestly is a 6-part series done by the Southside Rabbi podcast by two Christians (who invite varying perspectives to discuss whether or not CRT is congruous with Christian thought). Below I will link the first episode.
This was a very interesting piece, but I am still unconvinced that Christian nationalism is not a problem or disassociated from white nationalism. Worse than that, Christian nationalism needs no defense and should find none among Christians who value scripture or a biblical view of human flourishing. I would be interested in how you would respond to other authors who write on the topic. These authors lay out why Christian nationalism is a problem, inherently linked to the American Christian tradition, and not consistent with biblical virtue or our mission and commitment as believers.
White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity by Robert P. Jones - demonstrates with data his claims and then reflects upon them.
The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby describes how racism is consistently defended by “Christians” in American church history.
Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes du Mez is a little more controversial but specifically reflects on Christian Nationalism .
The Liturgy of Politics: Spiritual Formation for the Sake of Our Neighbor by Kaitlyn Schiess describes what Christians should be interested in promoting today if they are committed to a biblical view for our world.
Reviewing this post, I see that you use the term Human Flourishing. I did not realize this when I wrote my most recent post using that title. You may disagree with my position, but I reject both Christian Nationalism as a label and Human Flourishing as a term. https://davidgoodwin.substack.com/p/phrases-that-sizzle-christian-nationalism
Thanks for your comment. As I indicated in my piece, Christian Nationalism only exists as a construct of the Left*. They made up the term, poured meaning into it, and with that meaning, criticized it. As far as the racial contructs of Tisby and others, again the dialog these people use descends from assumptions based in CRT's systemic view, often without the proponents realizing they are engaging in a frame that is a construct of CRT. The CRT frame inescapably cues up the arguments of all you mention. The only problem: Like Ptomely's cosmology, the CRT cosmology (and it's CT father) doesn't exist.
Nations have been around a long time. Race as we understand it is fewer than two centuries old-- really 19th century justification for the racial view of humanity to replace the Christian view of humanity. This view resulted in the racist activity at the end of the 19th and early 20th century. The Christian concepts of people groups (Nations, tribes, tongues) is the frame that we should be using. Physical attributes are irrelevant in this view. Cultures are central. This is why Paideia (culture transfer) is so important.
* Note: The longer the term is used, the more likely a group becomes defined by the term. So it may be that Christian nationalism becomes a real thing as people seek to be identified by the term-- "yea, I'm one of those!". This is how words have power to create. Before the term, you just had Christians who believed America had Christian roots and was a good nation. Or, you had progressive ideas of manifest destiny and the messianic role of "Americanism" in the world. Or, some combination of the two. Plus, a few other positions. Reality didn't fit the category.
Thanks for your reply. You mentioned that Christian Nationalism is a construct of the “left”. I only wonder how that relates to the actual data and views of the authors I mentioned. Robert P. Jones, for example, gives some very disheartening statistics outlining how racist attitudes measured on an index are proportionate to church attendance in white evangelical contexts. Along with that, the history of the American church has an undeniable role in shaping the racist attitudes that still linger today. This is, as you mentioned, not at all congruous with a biblical view of human flourishing. As far as CRT (critical race theory?) or CT (critical theory?), I find it intellectually dishonest to consider anything that appeals to power structures as such. I can’t, for example, say that the facts regarding current American white evangelical Christian attitudes and their subtle racist tendencies are a construct of CRT based on assumptions, they are just the facts. We cannot just throw anything we don’t like about race into the category of CRT. I wonder, if you do not think that Christian Nationalism is even worth defining, how do you explain why there were protesters who invaded the capital on January 6 wielding Christian flags, why so many white Christian evangelicals voted for Donald Trump, how ripples of the American Christian Nationalism model currently afflict other nations around the world like Brazil who has a overtly racist, sexist, and fear-mongering leader who constantly attends “Christian” rallies? Thank you for discussion. It is a very important and timely one to have. I am a Christian and care about my witness as an American one. I wince knowing that so many non-Christian Americans associate my faith with hate, racism, and nationalism. In the real Gospel, not the fake gospel (the real Good News as opposed to fake-news, if you will), our ‘love for nation’ is trivial compared to the unity of the diverse global Church.
Tanner, I'd be interested in knowing quite clearly whether you find the same problems with cultural Marxism (as it has come to be known), CRT, and "Anti-Racism" as you do with someone promoting a proto-American view of a nation using the Bible as its guide and seeking to be a "nation under God."
The problem with Christian Nationalism is political idolatry. I have not personally met or noticed many Christian Marxists who idolize marxism as a political idol. So, no, I would not find the "same problem", problematic though it is. Christian Nationalism is wrong primarily because it is not biblical. Additionally it has been historically (in the American context) muddied with racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other things that are incongruous with Christian virtue and Church witness.
I am curious about what exactly you mean by cultural Marxism. Additionally, to equate or relate it to CRT is interesting. I do find many troublesome arguments within much of both CRT and "anti-racism", whereas I guess I would consider both Marxism and Christian Nationalism fundamentally flawed.
Although there are certainly worrisome proponents of CRT, because it is such a broad term, it is intellectually dishonest to write off the entire group of ideas just because it is related to a critical perspective. I would encourage you to engage with the idea and then form your opinions about it.
One resource I recommend that approaches the topic honestly is a 6-part series done by the Southside Rabbi podcast by two Christians (who invite varying perspectives to discuss whether or not CRT is congruous with Christian thought). Below I will link the first episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l19y2ziBxU4
This was a very interesting piece, but I am still unconvinced that Christian nationalism is not a problem or disassociated from white nationalism. Worse than that, Christian nationalism needs no defense and should find none among Christians who value scripture or a biblical view of human flourishing. I would be interested in how you would respond to other authors who write on the topic. These authors lay out why Christian nationalism is a problem, inherently linked to the American Christian tradition, and not consistent with biblical virtue or our mission and commitment as believers.
White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity by Robert P. Jones - demonstrates with data his claims and then reflects upon them.
The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby describes how racism is consistently defended by “Christians” in American church history.
Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes du Mez is a little more controversial but specifically reflects on Christian Nationalism .
The Liturgy of Politics: Spiritual Formation for the Sake of Our Neighbor by Kaitlyn Schiess describes what Christians should be interested in promoting today if they are committed to a biblical view for our world.
Reviewing this post, I see that you use the term Human Flourishing. I did not realize this when I wrote my most recent post using that title. You may disagree with my position, but I reject both Christian Nationalism as a label and Human Flourishing as a term. https://davidgoodwin.substack.com/p/phrases-that-sizzle-christian-nationalism